Conservative Majority Vote in the Supreme Court

M1L35 M4R54L15

New Member
You are aligned with a political scene that is hostile to LGBT+ people. The Furry Fandom is majority LGBT+.

You are not welcome here or in any LGBT+ community. You are not here in good faith if you are aligned against our rights. Get out.
That's probably why I left the Republican Party around the time Trump clinched the nomination, disgracefully. It's also probably why I've been a member of the Human Rights Campaign since 2014. It may be also be why when certain homophobic and transphobic assholes on FAF decided to try marginalize QUILTBAG users there, I was one of ones who set them straight; you can verify my post history there. 

I support QUILTBAG rights and this community. I don't know how I can prove that, but I would like to try.

 

Merv

Member
Really? Trump being nominated is what made you leave the republican party? Not, say, the:

racism

xenophobia

misogyny

anti-LGBTQ sentiments

hold on I ran out of space

 

M1L35 M4R54L15

New Member
The first thing you did was identify yourself as a conservative on a thread about how the 5/4 conservative vote can strip our rights.
I did, to be open as in other spaces there have been far-right extremists who like to muddy their true political affiliations, but I also expressed my displeasure with Amy Coney Barrett's nomination and confirmation along with my support for Democrats in rectifying that particular injustice. While I am conservative, QUILTBAG rights take precedence over any ideological concerns since equal rights is the bedrock of our society.

Really? Trump being nominated is what made you leave the republican party? Not, say, the:

racism

xenophobia

misogyny

anti-LGBTQ sentiments

hold on I ran out of space
I mean, those are among the reasons I voted for Obama twice after the Hurricane Katrina, Iraq War, and Great Recession debacles. I would argue, however, that progressives would have less work to do mending this country if there were more rational and cooperative conservatives to help.

 

TaytoSeal

Member
You voted for Obama twice but all that wasn't enough for you to leave the Republican Party entirely? It had to take Trump's nomination because he was completely mask-off?

Your allyship is performative to me. If you wanna prove that you're real ally how about donating to LGBT people escaping abuse or homelessness?
 



 
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M1L35 M4R54L15

New Member
You voted for Obama twice but all that wasn't enough for you to leave the Republican Party entirely? It had to take Trump's nomination because he was completely mask-off?

Your allyship is performative to me. If you wanna prove that you're real ally how about donating to LGBT people escaping abuse or homelessness?
I was a Republican who volunteered, campaigned, interned under, and worked with a few moderate Republican politicians in my state, which is definitely blue but a decent place to live. I have voted for other Democrats if they were the best choice, however, for local positions. I had doubts for about ten years before Trump, but I'll admit to thinking the party would eventually moderate. Trump was a sign that wouldn't happen.

I do donate the Trevor Project and the Human Rights Campaign, whichI belong to, in addition to Covenant House.

 
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TaytoSeal

Member
I do donate the Trevor Project and the Human Rights Campaign, whichI belong to, in addition to Covenant House.
And I'm sure you get lovely tax write-offs from them for donating.

One of the many hallmarks of being a Republican is a deep seated hatred of the poor. Unless you've donated a significant portion of your bank account(s) directly to desperate LGBT+ I'll still smell their blood off of your fancy suit.

 
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M1L35 M4R54L15

New Member
And I'm sure you get lovely tax write-offs from them for donating.

One of the many hallmarks of being a Republican is a deep seated hatred of the poor. Unless you've donated a significant portion of your bank account(s) directly to desperate LGBT+ I'll still smell their blood off of your fancy suit.
I generally don't include charitable donations because I rarely hold onto the paperwork and I like to keep my taxes simple. I also only donate to a few charities since rent is high and I am paying off student loans, homie.

Furthermore, I came up poor; there were a couple of times where my family was almost homelessness when I was a kid before my mom stabilized things.

I know that grind. 

 

Tamara

Member
Fortunately economists agree that labor is the source of all value in society. I am not super well versed in the peculiarities of economics in all its facets - but I do remember this. In the case of automation, it does create a large 'classless' and/or lumpenproletariat (who have to find means outside of conventional production such as crime) but more so it transitions us from manual to mental labor. Still, labor is required to design, manufacture, and maintain machines.

Additionally there is the effect of the rate of profit to become slimmer with automation - this byproduct of competition creates even more slim margins for capitalists to work under. This actually makes them more vulnerable to impacts such as strikes.

The depression of wages has to do with neo-liberalism, a call-back to the laissez Faire times of the early late 19th and early 20th centuries (ironically leading them into WW1 and the Great Depression - forcing a change in policy). After crushing the labor unions and the workers parties in their home countries, and with the USSR/Eastern Bloc showing serious flaws - capitalists made their move towards crushing all the progress made in regards to labor up until that point. This is still the prevailing ideological standpoint of many countries today unfortunately.

A.) Despite the difficulties, which are very high in this connected day and age - I do still think it is possible. For many it will be necessary very soon regardless. Unfortunately these conditions lay the stage for a violent and brutal struggle ahead.
B.) Complete victory would mean overturning the system fundamentally. To create a new system that does not require so much correction. I am eluding to a working class state, where the working class and the oppressed have their interests upheld from the start and by any means necessary.

 
I spent many years studying economics and still keep an eye on the subject. And the latest research and numbers from the job market seems to show that the transition from manual labor to mental labor is simply not happening at all, because automation can also perform much of the mental labor as well, and way better than humans in most cases. Thus the potential new mental jobs are not available for humans because companies invest in computer systems that can do the work.

For example, Google employs a few tens of thousands of engineers worldwide, which is a ridiculously low number of employees for such a massive multinational company. Or, if you look at another technological field, I've seen a company doing 3D printers advertise their ecosystem as so robust and efficient that one person can easily oversee every operations for 30 or 40 printers. Thus you would need only three people working in 8 hours shifts to take care of those printers working 24/7. Compare that to the tens of thousands or hundred of thousands of people working in the automobile industry a few decades ago.

I wish people stopped saying 'capitalists' to talk about the CEOs of big companies and the like who did their utmost to keep wages low, line their pocket and crush every worker's protection rule that they rule. That is not capitalism. In a true capitalist society, the workers, as a integral part of the whole economic circle, is paid a wage that allows him to live in decent condition and to have enough money to spend on thing, thus keeping the whole economy going. The society we live in today is not capitalist at all. We're not supposed to have multi-billionaires in a true capitalist society because the money that the company makes is supposed to be invested in means of production, ie personnel and machine, to produce more and pay more so the people can buy more, thus the money flows continuously from company to people to company in a never-ending cycle.

I do agree with you that, at some point; perhaps we are even seeing the first stages of it; there will be a very violent and brutal struggle. But I'm very skeptical that it will come from any sort of organizations, with clear goals and means. It will random, anarchistic in nature, with little organization, at least at the beginning. I also agree that the system needs to change, although I'm not sure that a complete overturning is necessary nor wanted: we know the problems, we know how they can be corrected, but the people currently in charge do not want to because they are the ones profiting immensely from the current flaws.

I believe that, with automation, we can and should do away with the whole concept 'labor being the source of all value'. I remember reading previsions by economists from the 1970s stating that, by year 2000, people would work 15h a week for the same wage, thanks to advance in automation, giving them ample free time to dedicate to other pursuits, whether it is spending time with their family, furthering their education or just practicing a hobbies. And that could happen today, we do have the technological means to do that.

 
I wish people stopped saying 'capitalists' to talk about the CEOs of big companies and the like who did their utmost to keep wages low, line their pocket and crush every worker's protection rule that they rule. That is not capitalism. In a true capitalist society, the workers, as a integral part of the whole economic circle, is paid a wage that allows him to live in decent condition and to have enough money to spend on thing, thus keeping the whole economy going. The society we live in today is not capitalist at all. We're not supposed to have multi-billionaires in a true capitalist society because the money that the company makes is supposed to be invested in means of production, ie personnel and machine, to produce more and pay more so the people can buy more, thus the money flows continuously from company to people to company in a never-ending cycle.

I do agree with you that, at some point; perhaps we are even seeing the first stages of it; there will be a very violent and brutal struggle. But I'm very skeptical that it will come from any sort of organizations, with clear goals and means. It will be random, anarchistic in nature, with little organization, at least at the beginning. I also agree that the system needs to change, although I'm not sure that a complete overturning is necessary nor wanted: we know the problems, we know how they can be corrected, but the people currently in charge do not want to because they are the ones profiting immensely from the current flaws.
Corporatism 101. The cronyism (another fancy way of saying "a system where positions of power are given to those who will serve the powerful, instead of to those who are the most qualified", derived from the word "crony", which means friend) philosophy with one simple goal of serving the powerful people who pull the strings. It's what allowed the best government money can buy to get bought by them - remember how those who control our food supply convinced our government to let low quality food flood the market because it was cheap to produce? And also the dumpster fire that is NAFTA, heavily favouring American corporations, especially their products, over Mexican ones

In a true capitalistic society, the powerful top wouldn't rig the government in their favour, and they don't get multi-billion dollar bailouts, brought to you by your local taxpayer™ (this includes you btw). The whole game of free market would be fair for everyone

Corporatism/Crony Capitalism is what you're looking for. It's the golden word(s)

- Xi Yao

 
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Kyureki

Emerald Subscriber
Nevermind, was triggered, would delete if I could.

 
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Glark

Member
The republican party is full of boomers and boomers are going to die soon anyways. I say we leftists have already won.

 
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Flareon

Member
I was a Republican
So aside from your initial claim of "being a conservative" and Republican, what exactly makes you a conservative? Throughout this thread, you have been parrying answers from people who have pointed out why conservative views are bad by saying you never had those views. You support demographics that conservatives generally don't, and you've voted for not conservative polticians for the last 12 years. You don't seem very conservative to me beyond your job history.
 

 If you wanna prove that you're real ally how about donating to LGBT people escaping abuse or homelessness?


And I'm sure you get lovely tax write-offs from them for donating.
That's not fair. :( You can't ask for something and then complain when he responds in some affirmative way. You and I have the same views, but you can't both want and be critical of a behavior someone has at the same time.

 

M1L35 M4R54L15

New Member
So aside from your initial claim of "being a conservative" and Republican, what exactly makes you a conservative? Throughout this thread, you have been parrying answers from people who have pointed out why conservative views are bad by saying you never had those views. You support demographics that conservatives generally don't, and you've voted for not conservative polticians for the last 12 years. You don't seem very conservative to me beyond your job history.
 
I would argue that my generation of Republicans are more liberal and open-minded that the previous generations, though there are definitely older conservatives who disagree with the state of affairs now and believe the status quo needs a shakeup.

As for my beliefs, I'll make no bones, I'm capitalist ... but I don't have a problem with limited government controls on the economy to prevent downturns and people falling into poverty. I also don't have a problem with government programs meant to lift people out poverty under certain stipulations. I don't particularly have a problem with European economic models of capitalism which mix democratic socialism that conservatives in Europe mostly back as the norm.

Expansively, I am for a strong national defense with smart spending to avoid needless expenditures on that front. I am a believer in NATO and our commitments to it. I support the Second Amendment, though I believe in gun control and I would vote for public safety over maintaining the availability of certain classes of weapons; there have been too many these mass shootings and too many militia groups are arming themselves with weapons of war. I feel we need to take a tough stance against Russia and China through diplomatic, economic, and military means if necessary. I feel military action is needed at times to address situations such genocide or the invasion of peaceable countries.

That's not fair. :( You can't ask for something and then complain when he responds in some affirmative way. You and I have the same views, but you can't both want and be critical of a behavior someone has at the same time.
It's fine. I feel he has had bad experiences with people on my side of aisle before and that is coloring his perception of me for the moment. I have to admit the Republican Party as a whole hasn't be good QUILTBAG matters; some resentment is to be expected for sure.

 

Flareon

Member
I would argue that my generation of Republicans are more liberal and open-minded that the previous generations,
I think that's generally how things have been over time. I'm sure the liberals of a century ago were probably less left than today's typical left wing. I would imagine it was liberal to think that black people were 3/5ths of a person at one time. Obviously that would be considered so far right wing these days, you'd be rightfully punched in the face for thinking such. Time seems to only march leftward.

I support the Second Amendment, though I believe in gun control and I would vote for public safety over maintaining the availability of certain classes of weapons
I don't think this is as "conservative" as you think it is. Especially lately, I have seen far more left-wing support for guns and access to them than I ever have in my politically aware life. Gun control as a whole is a very moderate, centrist ideal more than a left-wing one. IMHO.

I'm capitalist ...

a strong national defense
I feel we need to take a tough stance against Russia and China through diplomatic, economic, and military means if necessary.
I feel military action is needed at times to address situations such genocide or the invasion of peaceable countries.
So best I can narrow it down, aside from your concessions towards these views, these are your "conservative" opinions. Which would have me ask you some of the following to clarify:

What is your opinion of environment and government role in maintaining it and regulating things like businesses from abusing it or cars, plastic products, etc?
What does "religious freedom" mean to you? Subsequently, abortion and marriage.
What do you think of voter rights, such as no-excuse mailed ballots and subsequently, extended deadlines to receive mailed ballots so long as postmarks are present, curbside voting, dropbox prominence, or even automatic ballot delivery without needing a request?
What do you think of private vs. socialized healthcare?

I feel given your support of LGBT (.. QUILTBAG? Never heard that before) issues, not being against regulation, interest in non-aggressive foreign affairs and other things, unless you surprise me, you don't seem very conservative. You barely even seem centrist. More left-center than not.

 

M1L35 M4R54L15

New Member
I don't think this is as "conservative" as you think it is. Especially lately, I have seen far more left-wing support for guns and access to them than I ever have in my politically aware life. Gun control as a whole is a very moderate, centrist ideal more than a left-wing one. IMHO.
I don't think gun ownership is conservative issue; it's just been framed that way by the NRA as a wedge issue, honestly. I do feel there needs to more consistency cases where minorities have used firearms to defend themselves only to run afoul of the law where a white person would be deemed to be acting in self-defense. See Breonna Taylor and how her boyfriend was framed up temporarily by David Cameron.

What is your opinion of environment and government role in maintaining it and regulating things like businesses from abusing it or cars, plastic products, etc?
I feel climate change is real, the scientific community is right, and that urgent action is required. Whether that urgent action is the Green New Deal or the Biden Plan I will admit is up for debate, but that more must be done in a capitalist framework to incentivize curbing emissions, promoting and marketing green technology, gradually transitioning out fossil fuels, and possibly considering geoengineering project is not.

What does "religious freedom" mean to you? Subsequently, abortion and marriage.
I believe in religious freedom. Stepping outside of the United States for a moment, I feel France's dress laws are horrendous. I do not feel that the government should intervene in a person's religion in that way.

That said, in this country, religious freedom is often used as cover to pass laws allowing discrimination against QUILTBAG folks.

That isn't okay with me.

A business should have to serve everyone equally regardless of their faith. It's nuts to me that straight people like myself should have a say on whether gay people can get married.

As for abortion, I believe in Roe v Wade and women's right to choose, but statistically, so do most Republicans within the party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Majority_for_Choice

What do you think of voter rights, such as no-excuse mailed ballots and subsequently, extended deadlines to receive mailed ballots so long as postmarks are present, curbside voting, dropbox prominence, or even automatic ballot delivery without needing a request?
I support all of the above federally, especially in the midst of this pandemic.

What do you think of private vs. socialized healthcare?
Here, we may have some friction. I am for the Affordable Care Act and am open to its expansion to include people out of work or unable to work. I believe there should be a public option to encourage market competition and make healthcare affordable. I'm not for a single payer system.