So can we talk about how garbage the idea of "reaching out" to trump supporters is?

Jonie roo

Member
Christ this is a mentality I've seen a bit on twitter and it infuriates me. Soooo anybody else agree that the idea of "emphasizing" With those who voted trump is? There's this dumb idea that "oh now they know how we felt in 2016" which is dumb because if they felt that way then it means people would be calling them slurs, giving death threats and all of that crud when at worst they're just getting teased and told how stupid they were, which is true. It makes no sense why those personally affected by what Trump did should be the ones to reach out and stuff when it should be their job to apologize. Really, isn't NOT reaching out the better option, continuous reminding them what they did? Perhaps it's just me but maybe... juuuuust maybe the best thing to do is make them know that their actions have consequences? This is good on two levels as then they won't get by scot free for supporting an utter bigot and as said earlier, actions have consequences. While I doubt and haven't seen a single one who has, having people cut themselves off from you, not letting people forget, especially with actions of these caliber are the only way that people can actually self reflect. And I mean self reflect alone as the best way to grow is through realizing your own faults yourself. It's just so dumb that people expect the minorities to be nice to those who reveled in their suffering for 4 whole years and would have supported for more and then try to tell us to be nice. Speaking as somebody who used to think forgiveness was always the answer, F### that sh##, that only allows for further bigotry

 
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Uni

Member
Not here to start anything and i myself am strongly left 

but consider a lot of the Spanish speaking immigrants fleeing from false socialism governments who are definitely brainwashed by Republicans. 
give this thread a read. Many of you who don’t have Latin roots might not even realize this is going on in our country. And this explains, not everything of why some of the Latino votes go republican despite immigrants being directly targeted. 




like I said this is no excuse but we need to do better than immediately demonize especially older communities of minorities being spoon fed misinformation because they don’t know how to access media in English very well.

 
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Stegladon

Member
It’s just the “be friends with everyone no matter their politics 🥰🥰” bullshit but in a fun new coat of paint. Guhhhhh

 

Eyes-No-Eyes

New Member


 

Tamara

Member
@Jonie roo Somehow, I kind of doubt that continuously reminding someone that they're stupid or bad or a bigot or whatever derogatory adjective you want to use, because of something they said or did, would make anyone in general even think about reflecting on the thing they said or did. And I'm not specifically talking about voting for Trump. Think how you personally would react if you did or said something that you thought was justified, for whatever reason, then you would get called stupid by some people continuously for weeks for that action?

Would you be swayed and go into into a 'self-reflection' that basically amounts to 'several people said that I'm stupid so they must be right even though I thought about the issue for a while and everything in me tells me that I did the right thing', or would that just reinforce your belief that you are right and the ones calling you stupid are in the wrong because all they can is resort to insults?

If you don't want to 'reach out', then don't. But lobbing insults is unlikely to make anyone start any kind of self-reflection.

Also, on the subject of Trump voters specifically, I'm pretty sure they know that their actions have consequences, else they wouldn't have voted for him. Some remain staunch supporters of agent orange for their own reasons, some changed their opinion in the four years because they saw through him and his rhetoric and realized the truth. I have high doubts that any of them changed their opinion because they saw posts online calling them stupid or bigots or anything...

 

NAMCOnade

Member
no way i'm reaching out to people who advocated for the death of minorities, and turns around and gaslights us to try and make us "reach out" to them. Some may see it as "selfish", i see it as self preservation. If they want to get help, they should reach out to a psychologist or something. It's not my job to pat their backs and tell them "umu itsh okey 2 b sad becuz ur fashisht weader is gone :(((" fuck that noise

 

Uni

Member
Like Tamara said. If you dont want to reach then you dont have to and no one forcing anyone to reach out to trump supporters but I'll have to agree that the vile tone immediately from dems doesnt help anyone. It might make you feel good to lash out but what you're really doing is making then crawl right back to the "safety" of their trump cult. 

And I'm not saying go to a proud boys rally and join hands for a song, fuck no. Truly fuck those ones who know exactly what they're doing. But truly some disadvantaged people were brainwashed by empty promises from the wrong side and we failed when we pushed them away instead of helping them. And I think that's what people mean when they say reaching out. 

 

mxbird

Member
Like Tamara said. If you dont want to reach then you dont have to and no one forcing anyone to reach out to trump supporters but I'll have to agree that the vile tone immediately from dems doesnt help anyone. It might make you feel good to lash out but what you're really doing is making then crawl right back to the "safety" of their trump cult. 

And I'm not saying go to a proud boys rally and join hands for a song, fuck no. Truly fuck those ones who know exactly what they're doing. But truly some disadvantaged people were brainwashed by empty promises from the wrong side and we failed when we pushed them away instead of helping them. And I think that's what people mean when they say reaching out. 
all i’m hearing rn is similar to northern states acting superior to southern states for leaning blue more regularly, despite it being well known and documented that many people in southern states are minorities who are kept away from education, face harder policies for voting, and are subject to widespread propaganda and religious leaders who want them to vote and believe red.

no one wants you to be friends with your local racist. no one is asking that. 

 

Tamara

Member
Saying mean things to people who support fascists and fascist policies does not make them into fascists.
Maybe not, but it would certainly keep them into the fascist fold and comfort them in their opinion that others are bad since they are throwing insults at them.

 
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Merv

Member
I've already said that we owe nothing to our oppressors, but perhaps I need to make it clear that this also includes the supporters of our oppressors. If they didn't want us being mean to them, they shouldn't have decided to give their support to the people who want us dead. If they want to be treated like decent people, then they can start being decent people, and they can start by atoning for what they've done.

 

extinct

Member
lol i'm all set with that noise. trump supporters knew what they were doing, who they were voting for, whose flags they obsessively paraded around and whose catchphrases they parroted while frothing about whatever garbage trump was tantruming about that week.

it wasn't a misunderstanding, they didn't make an innocent mistake.

 

Tamara

Member
I've already said that we owe nothing to our oppressors, but perhaps I need to make it clear that this also includes the supporters of our oppressors. If they didn't want us being mean to them, they shouldn't have decided to give their support to the people who want us dead. If they want to be treated like decent people, then they can start being decent people, and they can start by atoning for what they've done.


lol i'm all set with that noise. trump supporters knew what they were doing, who they were voting for, whose flags they obsessively paraded around and whose catchphrases they parroted while frothing about whatever garbage trump was tantruming about that week.

it wasn't a misunderstanding, they didn't make an innocent mistake.


You two seem to forget one thing: from their point of view, they are decent people and they did the right thing to protect their vision of the country. To protect the civilization, their children, their jobs, their religion or whatever other reason they use. Thus, in their opinion, they have nothing to atone for and what they did wasn't a mistake but a decision they took for the good of the USA.

The most rabid and extreme supporters of Trump and the GOP in general view the 'other side' in pretty much the same way you view them : as people hell bent on destroying everything they hold dear, spouting liberal garbage and waving strange flags during 'those disgusting pride parades where people prance around the streets naked and showing off their deviant sexuality'.

They don't see you as decent people, and hurling abuse towards them will only reinforce their beliefs that the 'other side' is bad and needs to be reined in, taken out of the public place, hidden and 'healed' of their deviant ideas if possible.

Also, it seems that quite a sizeable number of people who voted for Trump cast their votes primarily due to his economic promises, and didn't gave much thought about the policies that would impact other people, nor did they really believe that he would do some of the things he said or that he did them, as they believe that the media in general conflated things to make huge story for the news. I don't think that the coal miners who voted for him because he promised to bring coal back were also clapping their hands and nodding their heads in agreement when he announced that transgender were barred from serving in the army. They probably did not gave it much thought because they were focused on his promise to get their industry to restart.

Besides, I don't think anyone is ever 100% in agreement with every policies set by whatever politician we are voting with. Not you, not me, not anyone. Not everyone who voted for Biden is 100% in agreement with everything he said he would do, but they voted for him because he was the best candidate when compared to the alternative. It's the same for many people who voted for Trump: not everyone who voted for him is 100% in agreement with everything he said or did, but they voted for him because they found Hillary or Biden to be less deserving of becoming President. There seems to be many people afraid that Biden and the Dems will bring 'socialism' to the country, which is bad, thus they voted for Trump, even if they do not like the character and many of the things he says, and their idea of what 'socialism' is can be quite vague; but socialism is the absolute Bad Thing that can happen to the country, thus they have to vote against the socialist Biden and Dems.

You can hate them because they enabled this otherworldly presidency we just lived through, but remember that they aren't a coherent block, they aren't a united front or an army united behind their dear leader, as much as the Dems aren't united, or the LGBT+ community, or the furries, or most any group for that matter. Not everyone follows for the same reason, not everyone agrees on the same thing, and not everyone also has the same priorities in the same order.

 

Merv

Member
"well basically the fascists and their supporters really thought they were doing the right thing by attacking minorities, just like you think you're doing the right thing by trying to prevent that. Both sides!"

 
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Tamara

Member
"well basically the fascists and their supporters really thought they were doing the right thing by attacking minorities, just like you think you're doing the right thing by trying to prevent that. Both sides!"
No, not 'both sides', more like: "Insulting them won't make them change their opinion or apologize." Please don't distort what I wrote thank you very much.